Thread: Stage Four

It doesn’t exist. But we keep hoping.

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Looking a little more closely, in the 1999 II draft, Brian Feldman effectively dumped Wins and Strikeouts, too, and finished fourth. Two teams with 1400 innings between them finished first and fourth. 

I'm in 1986 coming up, but how I go will be based on the seeding.

Peter Kreutzer Rotoman

At the risk of preaching heresy against our new-found doctrine, in looking at the next battle, 2016, I think I can see paths to winning without dumping anything. Half-dumping might work better, as might an 8-point per cat strategy. Which I couldn't pull off when I tried it in the first draft. But there is less position scarcity in 2016, and a lot of sameness in the stats generally. The homogenized game had taken over.

Gene McCaffrey GeneM

I see your point Gene. I dumped Wins and Ks the first two rounds, but didn't quite get the ball across the line, but in the first one (1982) I made sure to buy enough innings to make the case I was playing it straight (I wasn't sure what the rule was and didn't want to ask while we were playing), and did the same in 1990, knowing there was no rule, though a little less enthusiastically. Jeff W took 2 pitchers in the first 13 rounds, which is the right way to do it. He might be right when he says, it may not work if two teams do it, but making teams buy a certain number of innings in some ways creates more strategies within the limitation, rather than the brute force of buying 500 super innings with saves.

Peter Kreutzer Rotoman

I'm not sure there should be an innings limit -  I'm not flat opposed, but since dumping something seems to be a requirement for winning my default position is to leave all options open. What works in 1999 is no sure thing to work in another year. I propose leaving the rules as they are for another round and see what happens.

Howard - I know, but the Runs just weren't there that I could see, and I was fighting for every last one. I needed one OF and an MI. Warren Morris was a no-brainer at that point and the only OF alternative to Tony Phillips was Erstad, and I was worried that the RBI issue wasn't settled yet. Turns out Erstad would have left me a few Runs short anyway.

Gene McCaffrey GeneM

Howard: before I started.

This is a very tough game that requires many skills, quite a few of which I lack. 

There's no official clock but there definitely is one. From the middle of the draft on, finding just the right player requires jumping around in your spreadsheet and making seat of the pants calculations. I'm bad at both.

But at least in this, my third try, I bought some hitters! For the first two rounds I followed my plan to buy the best players available -- who happened to be pitchers -- and then I pushed hard for a four-category offense (no steals).

I think I was in last place after six rounds. Then the offense reached the rest of the pack and I started to climb.

Lo and behold, in round 16, I was in first!

Was I fooled?

Maybe a little. But not really. I had packed in a lot of offense at the corners and in the outfield and had yet to buy a catcher or middle infielder.

I kept meaning to give a nod to position scarcity, but just before I picked Ed Taubensee, for instance, somebody else picked him. I bought another outfielder. I even filled my DH spot (with Mike Sweeney).

It was just a matter of time, in the last third of the draft, before teams I had passed in the hitting categories, would pass me back. Where the weak middle infield and catching corp really hurt me was in the runs category.

I didn't think you could compete in RBIs and batting average without being at least okay in runs. Turns out you can.

We play this game to learn something. I'm not sure it will help me in a real-life draft but it might.

Alex Patton Alex

Agree there should be a minimum innings total. Not sure that dumping Wins and Strikeouts is a total winner. But dumping something is important, whether you quit from the git go or give it a round or two to decide.

Peter Kreutzer Rotoman

Alex - at what point in the draft did you know that you would not win?

Howard Lynch LynchMob

Pshaw. He might be underrated. I mean, just add the factor to his numbers if he took steroids like everyone else in his era.  Paging A-Rod and Nomar, who was the best SS of the three?  Hard to know since you boys weren't legit.

Mike Landau ML-

"Jeter's always been overrated.

I say that half-seriously. If we want to talk about real baseball, we could talk endlessly about that."

Amen to that - just this morning (well, yesterday afternoon when we pre-recorded the show) we were talking about how so many were outraged that a voter left Jeter off his HOF ballot, that said voter didn't publish their ballot, there needs to be an investigation, etc... when so many objectively better players also didn't get in unanimously. Willie Mays! Johnny Bench! Hank Aaron! So many others! But no, it was Jeter's lack of perfect ballot was the call to arms!

Jeff Erickson JeffErickson

Jeff is taking us in a completely different direction (I see after making my post).

A very good point about what an extreme year 1999 was. And even so, I predict the only way the Rotoman Regimen loses in future retros is if two or more teams pursue it.

Or we add an IP minimum.

Alex Patton Alex