Justin Verlander Houston Astros

Age: 37 (February 20, 1983) | 6' 5" | 225lbs. | Throws: Right P-34
Tm Lg YEAR W L SV Hld G GS IP H HR BB SO ERA WHIP Rating BB/9 SO/9 BABIP G/L/F % $4x4 $5x5
DET AL 2006 17 9 0 0 30 30 186.0 187 21 60 124 3.63 1.33 1.34 2.9 6.0 .293 n/a 20
DET AL 2007 18 6 0 0 32 32 201.2 181 20 67 183 3.66 1.23 1.21 3.0 8.2 .294 n/a 25 23
DET AL 2008 11 17 0 0 33 33 201.0 195 18 87 163 4.84 1.40 1.32 3.9 7.3 .305 n/a 1 6
DET AL 2009 19 9 0 0 35 35 240.0 219 20 63 269 3.45 1.18 1.17 2.4 10.1 .328 n/a 31 30
DET AL 2010 18 9 0 0 33 33 224.0 190 14 71 219 3.38 1.17 1.10 2.9 8.8 .299 n/a 26 25
DET AL 2011 24 5 0 0 34 34 251.0 174 24 57 250 2.40 0.92 0.95 2.0 9.0 .247 40/18/42 52 44
DET AL 2012 17 8 0 0 33 33 238.0 192 19 60 239 2.65 1.06 1.05 2.3 9.0 .286 42/22/36 35 33
DET AL 2013 13 12 0 0 34 34 218.0 212 19 75 217 3.47 1.32 1.28 3.1 9.0 .327 38/23/39 12 17
DET AL 2014 15 12 0 0 32 32 206.0 223 18 65 159 4.54 1.40 1.37 2.8 6.9 .327 40/20/41 -1 5
DET AAA 2015 0 0 0 0 2 2 8.1 10 0 2 12 3.24 1.44 1.32 2.2 13.0 .465 n/a
DET AL 2015 5 8 0 0 20 20 133.0 113 13 32 113 3.38 1.09 1.12 2.2 7.6 .276 35/20/46 11 12
DET AL 2016 16 9 0 0 34 34 227.1 171 30 57 254 3.05 1.00 1.08 2.3 10.1 .267 34/19/48 34 34
DET AL 2017 10 8 0 0 28 28 172.0 153 23 67 176 3.82 1.28 1.28 3.5 9.2 .296 34/24/42 11 14
HOU AL 2017 5 0 0 0 5 5 34.0 17 4 5 43 1.06 0.65 0.75 1.3 11.4 .197 32/20/48 14 11
HOU AL 2018 16 9 0 0 34 34 214.0 156 28 37 290 2.52 0.90 1.01 1.6 12.2 .290 29/20/51 42 40
HOU AL 2019 21 6 0 0 34 34 223.0 137 36 42 300 2.58 0.80 0.95 1.7 12.1 .235 36/19/45 55 49
HOU AL 2020 1 0 0 0 1 1 6.0 3 2 1 7 3.00 0.67 1.08 1.5 10.5 .092 62/0/38 6 5
Career 16yrs 226 129 0 0 454 454 2986.1 2538 310 851 3013 3.33 1.13 1.15 2.6 9.1 .292 n/a
Welcome! You are invited to wander around and read all of the comments that have been posted here at Patton & Co., but as soon as you register you can see the bid limits that Alex, Peter and Mike propose for each player, and you can post your own comments. Registering is free, so please join us!
The final 2011 bid limits that were posted for this player:
PK 5x5: $26 MF 5x5: $25 AP 4x4: $26
Alex Patton Alex
Dec 15 '11
I think Eugene has answered the question as to why Verlander this year: Good timing. The hitters were Balkanized.

But Toz... you can't agree with Jim's rationale. Which is --

I'm sure many wonder why I didn't at least have Verlander somewhere on my ballot β€” second, third, fourth β€” if not first. My answer to that is this: If Verlander was going to be on my ballot at all, he was going to be first.

But once I decided I didn't think it was fair to compare pitchers with position players for this award, meaning I wasn't going to give Verlander a first-place vote, it would have been hypocritical of me to have him anywhere else on my ballot.

He was either going to be first on my ballot or not on it at all.

No matter how many ways you parse this nonsense, he's saying Verlander was the MVP in the American League this year. The only reason he didn't vote for him is that he refused to vote for a pitcher.
Alex Patton Alex
Nov 22 '11
To reiterate a point from earlier, the issue with Verlander is not that other pitchers got screwed in the past. The real question, again, is why Verlander this year? His year is not so distinct from other pitchers that it strikes me he was a no brainer for the award.

As to plate appearances versus batters faced, yes, Bautista came to the plate less often than Verlander pitched to a batter. On the flip side, while his pitchers were pitching, Bautista was playing the field and making putouts, registering assists and making the occasional error.

As for Jim, well, I agree with his rationale. He has one, however, so he is in a better position than a lot of voters. One of the criteria is "games played," and, as a result, I think it is fair to say that, except in unusual circumstances, a pitcher should not be at the top of the MVP heap.

John Toczydlowski Toz
Nov 22 '11
I'm sure it's been said before on these boards and while I don't entirely subscribe to the idea of plate appearances versus batters faced, it is illustrative of how much impact a starting pitcher has versus a hitter. Verlander faced more batters this year than Bautista came to the plate. That means something, I'm just not sure what.
Eugene Freedman EugeneFreed
Nov 22 '11
I'd add to this that in terms of how the BBWAA guidelines read, Ingraham is not off base at all (the emphasis is mine):

β€œThe rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931: (1) actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense; (2) number of games played; (3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort; (4) former winners are eligible; and (5) members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.”
Mike Gianella MikeG
Nov 22 '11
In the 34 games (21 percent) of the Tigers' season that Verlander appeared in, he was obviously overpowering, and in most games virtually unbeatable. But in 128 of the Tigers' games (79 percent), he was no factor at all.

A starting pitcher who pitches deep into the game every time he starts is a huge factor, in terms of the bullpen, in games he doesn't start.


For the sake of argument, let's say that a pitcher throwing 7 1/3 or more innings has a 100% impact on the game the next day.

Justin Verlander went 7 1/3 or more innings 19 times this year. So, assuming you do believe that a pitcher going deep into a game had 100% impact on the next game, Verlander still only impacted 33% of the Tigers' games.

Mike Gianella MikeG
Nov 22 '11
A conversation with Jim Ingraham.

The short version is I don't believe pitchers should be eligible for the MVP Award.

But they are eligible, Jim. Believe it or not.

In the 34 games (21 percent) of the Tigers' season that Verlander appeared in, he was obviously overpowering, and in most games virtually unbeatable. But in 128 of the Tigers' games (79 percent), he was no factor at all.

A starting pitcher who pitches deep into the game every time he starts is a huge factor, in terms of the bullpen, in games he doesn't start.

Twenty-one percent of an NFL season is three games. I highly doubt an NFL quarterback could be voted MVP if he only played in three games.

We don't talk about football at this site. And, as a member of the BBWAA, you shouldn't either.

I also believe there is a grind to the 162-game major-league season that position players have to deal with that starting pitchers don't. Position players must be physically and mentally prepared to perform at a high level in 140 or more games per season.

Starting pitchers, except for certain members of the Red Sox rotation, are in better shape than position players. The exertion they put forth in a single game exceeds the exertion a position player puts forth in five game.

Actually, maybe not. But you get the idea.

It's a great achievement for the position players at the top of the MVP voting to be able to stay healthy and to perform at the high level they did over the long marathon of a major-league season. Starting pitchers aren't required to do that.

They're not?

Ingraham's MVP ballot:

1. Jose Bautista, Blue Jays

2. Jacoby Ellsbury, Red Sox

3. Miguel Cabrera, Tigers

4. Adrian Gonzalez, Red Sox

5. Robinson Cano, Yankees

6. Dustin Pedroia, Red Sox

7. Curtis Granderson, Yankees

8. Alex Avila, Tigers

9. Michael Young, Rangers

10. Victor Martinez, Tigers

So now we'll know, when the AL vote total is rolled out, who voted for Victor Martinez.
Alex Patton Alex
Nov 22 '11
I doubt Jim Ingraham plays fantasy baseball, but let's give him his due.

I think Ingraham takes the argument too far, but I agree with the general premise of his argument. His rationale is also a consistent one and he does a good job of explaining why he left Verlander off. So, no, I don't see this as comparable to leaving Williams off of the ballot in '41 at all.

To Peter's point, this is being perceived as a loss for WAR by some. rWAR had Verlander and Jose Bautista tied at 8.5; if I were strictly using rWAR I probably would have defaulted to the hitter. fWAR isn't as kind. Fangraphs WAR doesn't even believe that Verlander was the best pitcher in the American League. Ellsbury (9.4), Bautista (8.3), Pedroia (8), Kinsler (7.7), Miggy (7.3), and CC (7.1) all topped Verlander (7).

To Toz and Eugene's point, Verlander certainly shouldn't be penalized for deserving pitchers not winning in the past. However, it seems to me that based on the season Verlander had versus the seasons that a number of hitters had that Verlander did not deserve to win.

I think this was a victory for traditional numbers, particularly wins. If Justin Verlander had pitched for the Minnesota Twins and gone 17-12, would we even be having this conversation?
Mike Gianella MikeG
Nov 22 '11
But, Toz, if other pitchers deserved it and didn't get it, should that disqualify Verlander this year?

In 1999 and 2000 Pedro should have won it. In 1999 the vote was split among hitters just like this year. Pedro was the leading first place vote getter, but too many left him off because "pitchers don't deserve the MVP." In 2000 he did even worse probably because it was one of the years of the hitter. Given ARod's position of SS that year, he probably should have won, despite Pedro. Speaking of SS, Jeter probably was as valuable as Pedro in 1999 and he didn't sniff the award.

1985 was inexcusable. The Cardinals won and the batting champ got the award. Yet, the next year, the valuable Boggs didn't sniff the award in the AL, ah, but a pitcher won the award: Clemens.
Eugene Freedman EugeneFreed
Nov 22 '11
It just leaves me scratching my head. There have been pitchers with better seasons that have not won the MVP award. Dwight Gooden's 1985 season is the one that will always stand out in my mind as the one that got away for pitchers. Roger Clemens in 1997 is probably another one, though it was very difficult to vote against Ken Griffey that year...Clemens probably should have finished better than 5th. Pedro in 2000?

Anyway, the point is that there have been pitchers with stronger years that did not win the award. Why Verlander this year?
John Toczydlowski Toz
Nov 22 '11