Thread: Stage Four

It doesn’t exist. But we keep hoping.

Welcome! You are invited to wander around and read all of the comments that have been posted here at Patton & Co., but as soon as you register you can see the bid limits that Alex, Peter and Mike propose for each player, and you can post your own comments. Registering is free, so please join us!

Yeah, I never understood how guys who profess to think that draft day is one of the best days of the year are itching and bitching for it to end 4 or 5 hours in.

Bob Elam Bob-in-TX
Aug 13

That one sounds like nirvana for people who want the draft to end quickly. 

Who those people are, I don't know.

Mike Landau ML-
Aug 12

I have one league that allows 6 majors / 4 minors. On the other end in a league with 23 active, 6 reserves, and 12 minors, we can keep 25.

Kent Ostby Seadogs
Aug 12

Over the years I've learned the smaller the number of players that can be retained, the longer a league survives.  

John Hobbs Real-Joker
Aug 12

I like that.  Those Mookie Betts for three guys in A ball trades disappear.

Mike Landau ML-
Aug 12

We have a $365 cap, but it includes reserves.  It seems somewhat helpful.  But, teams still make stupid 3-1 deals. Having the draft year as a contract year both helps and hurts.  We don't allow trades of minor leaguers anymore. That's probably helped more than anything.  Trade targets are more proven.  Sure, someone can trade Wander Franco, but they can't trade Jasson Dominguez when they dump.

Eugene Freedman EugeneFreed
Aug 11

When I joined my home league in 1996, dumping was out of control. The team I inherited had a lot of players who were either super expensive or whose contracts were over. I barely knew anyone in the league at that point, even Toz) remember him?) was a stranger but I could tell there was a good deal of bad blood in the league and disagreement on whether widespread dumping was OK or if some kind of curbs should be put into place.

The solution we eventually came upon (I think in 1998) was a salary cap of $350 for the active roster. People didn't want dumping to disappear, but they still wanted it to be part of the game. Once in a blue moon there are ridiculous trades, but the cap works in that it prevents a team that has been giving up in multiple seasons from building a powerhouse.

We also limited the number of minor leaguers you can keep to four. The two draft picks we get every year count against this total. So you can trade for minor leaguers/picks to your heart's content but if you don't manage this part of your team wisely, you'll have to throw some of these away at freeze date. But what usually winds up happening is it leads to more trades/negotiating in March, which is a good thing.

The other thing I've noticed about the cap is that teams that just try to add cheap players and sell away their best ones tend to get caught in a losing spiral for 2-3 years. Since contenders are limited by the cap, they often must keep some of their valuable freezes, and are still in a good position to contend the following season. The teams giving up often don't account for this, and are stuck fighting the inflation battle because they didn't keep a $31 George Springer as a hedge against next year's inflation and wind up losing much of the value from their freezes at the draft table.

FWIW, I do like the pyramid structure, and that's probably what I'd be fighting for (as opposed to the #1 pick) in my non-contending seasons.

Mike Gianella MikeG
Aug 11

Likewise in the ADL: first pick goes to the fifth place team. 

The pyramid: fourth through ninth get seven freezes.Third and 10th get six. Second and 11th get five. First and 12th get four.

There's also a FAAB penalty for finishing with fewer than 35 points.

These are all rules to discourage tanking completely. If you make a next-year deal, feel free; you still want to be respectable this year.

In the last week of the season, the team in seventh is bound and determined to finish sixth to get the higher pick in the reserve draft.

Does it matter? Probably not. The first pick in the reserve draft is often a very big deal. From then on it's hard to say.

But we think it matters and stay in the game.

Alex Patton Alex
Aug 11

5th place also has first pick in the reserves.

Mike Landau ML-
Aug 11

We use the ADL rules, I think, in my home league---our pyramid is 5-6-7-8-9-9-9-9-8-7-6-5 for keepers, places 1-12.  But maybe in the ADL they keep the entire middle at 8 keepers.

Dump trades ruin the game.  You might say they *become* the game, and if the game is collecting prospects I'm bored. Some people seem to play roto ball just to prove they can pick prospects that will make it.  Yawn.

Dumping is a perpetual PCL problem and we never seem to want to really address it.

Mike Landau ML-
Aug 11